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Now That It Has Passed, prop 8

Posted by nebula0 on November 12, 2008


I must admit to you, this post would have much more moral authority if I considered myself a Mormon so I want to start it off by reiterating that I am no longer a Mormon.  That should make it easier to consider or ignore my opinion, whichever way you choose.  Also, as to my position on gay marriage in general?  Uncertain.

Here are some rather disturbing and disappointing things that have come out of this campaign:

– Orson Scott Card is a whack job.  I am very disappointed as I greatly enjoy his writing, but his commentary about how the government might have to get overthrown over this issue and the way he said it is insane.  Unfortunately it has tainted his writings for me (don’t you hate it when that happens?).  Whether or not you agree with prop 8, I think you can agree he went over the nutso line.

– The LDS church got way too involved in a political matter.  Whether or not the state of California decides to recognize gay marriages is a political issue, and the LDS church by having statements read during sacrament meetings and instructing various local leaders to get members to pledge sums of money (see my earlier posts on this matter).  They crossed the line.  Members shouldn’t be expected to toe the line when it comes to their private votes- there is something for Card to get upset about

– By getting itself so dirty in the campaign on all levels, from SLC hierarchy to local CA leadership, the LDS church has set a terrible precedent that could easily expand into other issues. 

–  Also, it has garnered for itself what I would consider a negative reputation in CA for being those ultra conservatives who all vote in a bloc.  Mormons never did do well with a reputation for bloc voting…

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6 Responses to “Now That It Has Passed, prop 8”

  1. Seth R. said

    Not to mention that the GLBT community seems to be temporarily channeling David Duke.

    I found that a rather rude surprise.

  2. nebula0 said

    well, that is another story…

  3. Mike said

    Although I agree that Orson Scott Card is a few chocolate chips short of a cook, I feel the need to correct a few misconceptions;

    1. for years, churches of all forms have gotten involved in political matters. This mostly occurs when they’re rooted in morality, although some churches do allow presidential candidates to give stump speeches. I don’t think at all that the LDS church was “too involved,” in asking it’s congregation in one letter to put forth effort to protect marriage due to their view on homosexuality, which is shared by the majority of christian denominations. I mean after all, the LDS church presidency sends a letter to be read in sacrament meeting and there’s an outrage, but no one says a word when there are GBLT pastors walking the streets outside a mormon temple protesting their bigotry? That being said, it’s rare when the LDS church throws it’s weight around in the political realm so it’s destined to make news; it’s just up to the rationalists to not make it a double standard.

    2. Setting precedents. This is kind of silly, it smells a bit like a Sean Hannity tactic, the LDS church set this precedent years ago during the Equal Rights Act fiasco and since then they’ve consistantly stuck to moral issues that affect families and life. So to say that the church has set some sort of precedent that will allow them to sprawl their influence into other realms is a bit cynical. They’ve set the precent before, and they’ve done a good job at staying nuetral on most issues.

  4. nebula0 said

    1. It’s not even that the LDS church some kind of stance on a ‘moral issue’ it’s that they took such concrete and thorough and driven actions for a specific proposition on the Californian ballot. It would be one thing if they simply remained anti-gay marriage. That they were militaristically pro-prop 8 is another matter.

    2. The ERA thing was a problem too. Excommunicating people over it crossed the line if you ask me (and by reading my blog I guess the readers did sort of ask me). None of that is a move in the right direction.

  5. Mike said

    1. Nonetheless, it just proves the point that somehow bigotry and double standards are acceptable towards congregations of predominately conservative churches (and that defense is being made by the organic fruit-farting, tree-huggin’ blue state liberal that I am). It’s sad that not even in your rebuttal did you mention either the churches that took staunch opposition to Proposition 8, nor all the congregations involved in the Protect Marriage coalition.

    2. That wasn’t your claim. Your claim was that this gave the church an opportunity to broaden it’s reach due to their new “precedent” being set.

  6. nebula0 said

    1. Why? This blog is called “About Mormonism” for crying out loud. If other churches read from their pulpits statements to the affect that the members need to support ‘pro marriage’ measures and organize local leaders to gather up donations then yes, I will speak out against that as well. None of that is a good idea.

    2. I think it will. Time will tell.

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