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Should I Write the Letter?

Posted by nebula0 on November 19, 2008


I’m beginning to think that the time may come that I may actually write The Exit Letter to my Stake President.  The reason I’m contemplating this turn of events is because I’m also considering “joining” (I’m already a Catholic according to Catholics by virtue of my infant baptism) Catholicism.  It seems appropriate to combine a step like that with an official declaration of my leaving Mormonism.  I don’t feel like I need to make a point or give my former Mormonism the finger or anything like that, in fact, I’m feeling more positive about Mormonism than I have in a couple of years.  At this point I could easily attend a Sacrament meeting with my spouse oh, say, monthly without getting that inner cringing feeling, because I would not equivocate if people asked about my religious status.  I would tell them non Mormon and leave it there.  I’d let them try to convert me with polite quietness on my part.  I wouldn’t try to prove anything.  So I would write the letter to further solidify that position of pleasant neutrality and cut off any remaining reason for which I would have to explain my situation as an ex Mormon.  I want to be simply a ‘non’ Mormon who happens to know a lot about Mormonism and disagrees with the theology.  That’s how I feel these days.

Then again, if writing a letter works against that purpose for an unforseen reason I would want to know that.  I have no desire to cause problems for my family-in-law who are all active Mormons.  They know at the very least I’m an inactive coffee and alcohol drinker and are polite enough not to ask why.  If they did I’m fairly sure I would be nonchalant about it and unless they were interested in a serious discussion quickly move the topic.

So to write the letter or not.  For the first time since declaring myself an ex Mormon I’ve felt the impulse the past month or so to write the letter.  If I do it, it won’t be for many months still.

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49 Responses to “Should I Write the Letter?”

  1. ditchu said

    You mean you didn’t notify the church that you have left?

    Strange. is this somehow a subcontious action or denial of action that you really want to stay associated with the Faith you say you want to leave?

    I would have thought this would be your first step to reconcile your differances with the LDS Church.

    If you truly want to leave, wright the Letter and send it already.

    Good luck with the Catholic guilt,
    -D

  2. nebula0 said

    D,

    I don’t have guilt issues. No I didn’t send a letter. Why would I? Usually who people send the letter have an axe to grind. I don’t.

  3. Seth R. said

    I really can’t say which would be better in your case.

    One of my ex-Mormon friends recently wrote his letter because he didn’t feel like he could, in good conscience, remain affiliated in any way with an organization that would do something like that to loving gay families.

    But if you don’t feel similar outrage over that or something else, probably no harm in letting sleeping dogs lie.

    And what is “Catholic guilt?” Is it different from the kind I’ve had? I’m always up for spicing things up with a bit of variety.

  4. nebula0 said

    Seth, thanks for your thoughts. No, I don’t feel outrage over anything so I’m definitely in no hurry- let me say that.

  5. ditchu said

    Sorry for the referance to “Catholic Guilt” as it was from one of my long time friends that he sais in his Church (he’s Catholic) rules by guilt, and that is why he must go to church at least twice a year (christmas Midnight Mass, and Easter). I personally think it is the guilt placed upon him by his Parents, which for some reason call themselves “Recovering Catholics.” I don’t know what that is about.

    Well have fun with your new old religion.

    -D

  6. nebula0 said

    Thanks ditchu. No that’s okay, I know it’s a running joke, but comparing Catholicism with other religions I think the joke probably better applies to protestantism these days ;).

  7. Darrell said

    My wife and I wrote the letter to exit the church earlier this year for 3 main reasons:

    1) Our stake pres threatened to ex us because we were starting to affiliate with another church in town. We did not want the decision to exit to be the church’s so the decision was easy from there.

    2) We did not agree with the theology and did not want to be associated with it any longer. Why remain affiliated with something you see as false?

    3) There are six of us in our family and we did not want to be included in the falsly inflated membership numbers that are shared every 6 months in conference. If we do not consider ourselves mormon any longer we did not want the church to include us in their report.

    If any of those apply to you I would say have your name removed. However, if you do not feel passionately about it I would say why go through the trouble. It IS NOT easy to do… the church purposely makes it hard. So unless you feel strongly about it the process will probably really frustrate you.

    One interesting story about how the church trys to make it difficult… our bishop actually called our house and said he needed to speak directly with my wife to make sure that the signature on the letter was really hers!! He had only spoken with me about my feelings regarding the church and he actually thought I had forged her name on the exit letter. That REALLY irritated my wife. She was out of town due to a death in the family and she had to take time away from her family to call him in order to assure him that I had not forged her name. Hilarious!!

    Darrell

  8. Seth R. said

    “Our stake pres threatened to ex us because we were starting to affiliate with another church in town. We did not want the decision to exit to be the church’s so the decision was easy from there.”

    That would make the decision a bit easier.

    Can’t say as I blame you Darrell.

  9. ditchu said

    What is so difficult about telling a Church that you nolonger wish to be affiliated with them.

    Dear Church leader, head honcho, Cheif preist, Big Kahouna, or what-ever,

    I, State your name, wish to disassociate myself (and my family) from your orginasition. Please remove me (and the members of my family that follow {because they are between the ages of 8 and 17 and cannot leagealy request this for themselves} ) from your rolls. (If planing to become members of another Faith Orgnisation: Please forward our records to, state the address of the new orgnisation.)

    Respectfully yours,

    {Signiture}

    Type your name

    then print it, sign it, and send it to the headquarters of the orgnisation you wish to leave.

    How hard is that, really.

    you obovously have access to a computer and can type, or you would not be posting these statments on a web-log.

    Good night,
    -D

  10. ditchu said

    Well did the phone call end it?

    Not too hard to me.

  11. Seth R. said

    Ditchu, the problem is, I specifically remember General Authorities in Conference standing up there and giving some story about the home teacher “who never gave up” on that unfriendly guy down the street, who eventually softened, and then eventually became active again, and how the home teacher accompanied this “lost sheep” to the temple for the first time…

    So it goes.

    You honestly think that with anecdotes like that, just a few members aren’t going to get the take-home message that the proper approach to inactive members is to “bug them until they say uncle?”

  12. Darrell said

    Ditchu,

    You obviously have not discussed or researched what the process is for leaving the church. If a letter were it then yes, it would be very easy. You ought to do a little research before you make flippant comments.

    Darrell

  13. ditchu said

    Darrell,
    What is so hard about writing a letter? that is by the way what this page was about in the first place. Or is it not that explicate?

    Please, you all seem to think it is difficult to “Leave” when you made the decision to do so. After the decision is made then go through it and do it. I don’t think this is really an issue with the Church or any organization one wished to disconnect with, but with the resolve and determination of the participant who dose not know for sure if they want to dis-associate.

    Once you have settled to do so… just do it.

    -D

  14. nebula0 said

    I have to say, I tend to agree with ditchu on this one. I think the tough part is breaking the news to friends and family who may be deeply disappointed, but once that part is over the rest is, for most people, the easiest part.

  15. Darrell said

    Ditchu and Nebula,

    If it were as easy as writing a letter and sending it in I would agree with you. However, the church does not have it setup that way. SLC has NOTHING to do with getting your name removed. They will do whatever the local priesthood leader decides on the matter. When you send your letter to SLC they respond with a form letter that tells you to work with your local priesthood authority on the matter and they cannot work with you on it.

    Therefore, the process is up to your bishop. The bishop can decide not to do ANYTHING if he wants to… it is up to him. As I mentioned, my bishop would not move forward on the matter until speaking directly with my wife. My wife DID NOT want to speak with him b/c she knew it would turn into a guilt trip. Oh well… tough luck for her if she wanted her name or our children’s names removed. I have heard about other bishops requiring a face to face with each spouse. Then they will really guilt you into not doing it. I have heard other stories where the bishop says “I am not sending the letter in until you wait one year to make sure you really want to do this”. It is totally up to the bishop.

    The problem is the LDS church purposely makes it hard to get your name off. If I want my name off why can’t I just say “take my name off the records” and they do it. NOOOOO!! You have to do what your local leader decides… and that really depends upon how difficult they want to make it… some make it easy and some make it REALLY hard.

    Darrell

  16. nebula0 said

    That’s interesting Darrell. I didn’t realize it wasn’t a matter of having SLC deal with it. It’s funny to me that the local bishop gets to do whatever he wants.

    Then again, I could always direct mine to the part in my blog which details my temple experience. That might expediate matters.

    I don’t think I’ll worry about it for now.

  17. ditchu said

    Darrell,
    What is there to feel guilty about? If you truly believe you are making the right decision, and have decided on it there is nothing that should deture you from your resolve. I understand your fear of the guilt-trip but if it really is the right decision then you have nothing to feel guilty about.

    And if My bishop asked me to wait a year before he sent word into the Main office about my departure, my responce would be one of the following two.

    1. O.k. by me if you wait a year before sending it in, but you better send it in. I’m not planing on changing my mind on this as I have put a lot of thought and have come to this decision. I am resolved to follow through with it.

    2. Well, I understand what you are asking of me to wait a year to see if I really want to go through with this, but I have spent enough time making my decision and have resolved to depart from your association… Just send the damb letter in.

    Darrell, it seems to me that with your case (and your wife’s) that there is some undelt with emotional issue that should be resolved before the decision to depart is made. This senario brings the question to my mind on who is making the decision for your wife and what the reasoning really is. It is none of my business what the answers to those questions are but you better be clear to yourself on what has prompted your decision and who is making the decision. Then after that you really are only responcible about your part in getting yourself removed. As in all things if you do all you can then there is really nothing more to do.

    Now, on a personal note. If you really are not sure you wish to depart then figure that out before taking any action to start the removal process. (don’t waste other people’s time if you are not certian you want to go through with it.)

    So far it sounds like I had a harder time joining the LDS Church than you dis-associating from it.

    Good luck with your future endevors, Darrell, and know that the bishop just wants to be certian that you are not forcing others to remove themselves from the association with you.

    (sad to see you go) Good day,
    -D

  18. Seth R. said

    Darrell’s been gone a while Ditchu. It’s not like he’s announcing his recent decision to you.

  19. ditchu said

    Seth,

    I will admit that I don’t know Darrell, but it seems to me there is still something unresolved between him and his wife. I, However, don’t care to involve myself in his affairs, but to respond to his broadcasts.

    Thank you for clueing me in on the timing of his departure but it matters not, for Mt comments still stand, it is sad to see him go.(Just not sure if he is really gone yet:) )

    Good night,
    -D

  20. Darrell said

    Ditchu,

    How in the world do you assertain that there is “something unresolved” between me and my wife? The only thing unresolved between us right now is how to deal with the cranky builder who is finishing up our new house.

    Just so you understand… my wife and I officially resigned from the church early this year. This is nothing unresolved between us religious wise. We are both very happy in our new found faith in Christ and very much enjoy our new church. We could not be happier on that front.

    I do find in interesting that you automatically want to jump to the conclusion that there is something unresolved on my part. I understand that it shakes your paradigm regarding the LDS church to realize that there are people line me who leave the church simply because they no longer find it to be true. Your paradigm requires you to place the blame on us. However, you need to open your eyes… there are about 100,000 people a year resigning from the church right now. They are receiving so many resignation letters that they have come out with a STOCK BORCHURE titled “Please come back” that they send out once your resignation letter is received. My wife and I received one earlier this year. It has a stock number and is printed in bulk!! The church has problems and it is not that all of us who leave have “sin” problems or “have been offended” by someone. The CHURCH has problems. It needs to face up to it’s true history and doctrinal issues. Until that is done people will continue to resign.

    Best of luck Ditchu… I will be praying for you to see the truth of Jesus Christ is and what the LDS Church really is.

    Darrell

  21. Seth R. said

    Sometimes you wanna go, where everybooody knows your naaame…

  22. nebula0 said

    ah yes, sounds friendly seth 😉

  23. ditchu said

    Darrell,

    Useing your last post as it exemplifies the source of my thinking that there IS something unresolved. You said:

    “I do find in interesting that you automatically want to jump to the conclusion that there is something unresolved on my part. I understand that it shakes your paradigm regarding the LDS church to realize that there are people line me who leave the church simply because they no longer find it to be true. Your paradigm requires you to place the blame on us.”

    First of all, I would have you know that my paradigm remains intact and unshaken becasue any number of people leave (no matter if My family are the last ones in the Church). I do not place my value of Religion on the number of people who are a part of my church or not. (Reminds me of Lehi’s vision)

    However, back to the point of where I get that there is something unresolved.

    1. I am not pinning blame upon anyone, but you have mentioned guilt before and now you tell me that : “[my] paradigm requires [me] to place the blame on [you].”
    In psycology one would suggest that this is your subcontious telling you that the falt falls at your feet, as you concluded that I was “placing blame.”

    2. Your senario speeks of your personal willingness to speak with your Bishop, but the reluctance of your Wife. The simple request was to insure to your Bishop that you were not overbaring to your wife and that she had made her mind up as to what she wanted to do. But her reluctance to speak with the man was an indicator that she was either in reality unsure, or that she felt guilt already for some reason. Again, what is there to be guilty about if you truly think it is the right decision?

    Darrell, I really am not trying to goad you, or taunt you into discussing this further, I was simply stating my thinking on the issue from the information supplied to me. I just hope you are not one of these overbarring Husbands that feel they have to rule the home, I hope your wife does not go along with your every decision even if it means she suffers. Honestly, I hope that is not how things are with you, but the picture you have painted for me could suggest that that is exactly how it is. I hope that that picture is just skewed by the topic and your certian example we have discussed.

    By the way, thank you for your prayers, as an answer to them, I already see what the LDS Church is about and I know the truth about Jesus Christ, I did not grow up in the LDS Faith but choose it because it fit best with my Lifestyle and Philosophy. There is truth here and conframation of things I had learned from some sacred experences I had as a child.

    May God bless you to find the truth, and I hope to meet you one day in Heaven.

    -D

  24. Brad said

    Ditchu,

    You’re seriously psycho. Any time a mention of someone leaving the LDS church comes up, I’ve never NOT seen you attribute it to emotional issues of some kind – in everything I’ve seen you write, you always count it to such, and never leave room for the fact that people absolutely disagree with what the church has been teaching, and don’t believe it any more. You like to paint those who leave as emotionally scarred or unstable, not leaving open the possibility that they may be very stable, who have simply figured out the LDS church is false.

    Sounds like it may actually be YOU who has some emotional baggage that won’t let you believe otherwise…

  25. Darrell said

    Ahhh yes… my poor wife… I have pressured her into leaving the only true church on the face of the earth!! (That is sarcasm for the Ditchus out there!!)

    No matter how hard you try you cannot convince some people that you did not leave because of…

    1) Sin
    2) Being offended
    3) now according to Ditchu “unresolved issues”

    If I had a dime for every time I have heard these perhaps I would have enough money to cover the overages I owe to my builder!! Oh well… on to bigger and better things.

    Darrell

  26. ditchu said

    Brad and Darrell,

    The issue is not why someone decided to leave, or even that they decided to. I don’t care about your reasoning. In truth I am approching this in the broader sence that when someone wishes to leave any group, not just the LDS Church.

    Brad,
    I know that you are just gunning for me, with each comment directed to me from you it is always from the stand point to make me look or seem poorly somehow, but that is alright, I can take it, no matter how untrue much of what you say is.

    You said: “I’ve never NOT seen you attribute it to emotional issues of some kind.”
    Well read this page and see how I am not bringing up anything about someone’s emotional state. Also note that I have not made any conclusions to the reasoning of the decision to leave.

    You, as often before, make contradictory statment to the evidance on the same page. This gives the appearance that you are attempting to change the context of someone’s statment.

    Darrell,

    It has nothing to do with your reasoning, but It just seemed to me that there “Might” be something unresolved, between you and it was bleeding through to your story of when you wanted to get out.

    Look over my words and see that I am not attacking you, nor am I trying to put the guilt trip on you. I just wanted to share that I do not see how “Difficult it is to leave The Church,” or any orgnisation for that matter. It takes time… OK I see that, so do all things. Prople want to make absolutley sure of your concerns before going through what you laid out to be a time consuming process… Well that makes sence, I’d like to know before I start any long Process if it is avoidable or if it is necessary.

    I am glad that you are not the typoical overbarring husband and Tyranical ruler of the family. By the way I in no way wanted to place any blame or guilt on you in these statment of mine, I was pointion out (in answer to your question) where I was getting my “conclusion” from.

    Please note that I do wish you well and am not making a satire of this discussion, I do mean what I have said exactly as I have said it.

    Good day to you all,
    -D

  27. Brad said

    In a word, Ditchu – bull.

    Play the martyr all you wish – you did exactly what I said you did.

    Yep, I’m gunning for you – I wait only for your comments, and then spend the rest of my day wondering “hmmm, how can I get to Ditchu best?”

    You caught me.

  28. ditchu said

    Brad,
    Now that was almost an honest comment from you…
    Color me suprised.

    What I did here was not as you said I did. The context of this page and the words I wrote should speak for themselves here without you skewing the perspective of others.

    Bye-bye,
    -D

  29. Brad said

    They did speak for themselves – it’s the same comments I’ve seen you make anytime someone mentions they’ve left or questioned the church.

    The self-righteousness isn’t fooling anyone, I’m just calling you on it.

  30. ditchu said

    Brad, you are crying Wolf when there is no wolf present.
    You may be correct elseware but look over my words and see what I mean. Really are you so dense that you take offence at this stuff?

    What did I write on this page that suggested I was musing at the reasoning these people used to make their decision?

    Where else have you heard me state or write: “After the decision is made then go through it and do it. I don’t think this is really an issue with the Church or any organization one wished to disconnect with, but with the resolve and determination of the participant who dose not know for sure if they want to dis-associate.” OR: “What is there to feel guilty about? If you truly believe you are making the right decision, and have decided on it there is nothing that should deture you from your resolve. I understand your fear of the guilt-trip but if it really is the right decision then you have nothing to feel guilty about.” Where, but on this page?

    Back up your assertion that these are, “the same comments [you’ve] seen [me] make anytime someone mentions they’ve left or questioned the church.”

    I take it one by one as I see it, If you are seeing a thread well that is not due to any preset arguments I pull from some imagenary hat. Cry foul but it is a little late for Darrell had already informed me of the timing and such to negate any “emotional” statmet I had made.

    Good day, and good bye,
    -D

  31. Seth R. said

    Ditchu,

    I think you’re on pretty tenuous ground here. Even if your assessment of Darrell’s emotional well-being and relationships was correct (which I’m not convinced of at all), what is the point of bringing it up here?

    So arguments just aren’t really suited for online debate.

    This is probably one of them.

  32. Seth R. said

    Should have read “some arguments”

  33. ditchu said

    Seth,
    I am just going where ya’ll are taking me now. I said my peice and now Brad picked up on something that I don’t think is really there. I will let the rest of this go if ya’ll (mostly brad) will stop dredging it up and making blantantly misleading statments.

    I am still waiting to see what he writes next.

    I do understand that Some arguments are best left off the web, but one must defend their POV, especially when someone obvously takes it toatly the wrong way.

    Night,
    -D

  34. Brad said

    There are few other ways to take what you said, Ditchu. Again, you’re wanting to say what you did, and then be the martyr and say you didn’t mean what you said. No go.

    You clearly questioned the reasoning behind what was going on – you’ve done it with others before on other blogs, I’ve seen you do it. You are never willing to admit, as Darryl said, that people leave for reasons completely founded on the fact that they just do not believe the LDS church. You always believe it is for some “other” reason, and you state as such.

    If you didn’t want to be called on questioning people’s reasons for leaving, then don’t question their reason for leaving, when they’ve already said what it was. That’s probably the easiest way to keep you from taking flak.

  35. ditchu said

    Brad,
    Please show me where on this page I “questioned their reasoning for leaving?”
    I just don’t see what you are harping about.

    -D

  36. ditchu said

    Brad,
    Have you ever played the card Game B.S.?

    If so you know what it is I am asking of you, show the cards or take the pile.

    -D

  37. Brad said

    Posts 13, 17 & 19 – questioning intent, and calling family issues into question.

    Ditchu, I don’t expect you to own up to it, that’s not your style. I’ll call it as I see it, just as you do.

    You can take your own pile, as far as I’m concerned. You’ve done the same with respect others who’ve posted about leaving, this is no different.

  38. ditchu said

    Brad,

    13. makes my assertion that writing a letter and going throuth the Exit porcess is not difficult, in contrast to the assertion of Darrell as he has said “the church makes it hard.”

    I did not call anyone’s reasoning for leaving into question.

    17. Questioning the Guilt trip issue brought up by Darrell (not his reasoning for leaving). “If it is the right decision then there should be no guilt. as guilt is an emotion that comes about when we precieve that we are doing wrong.

    Also the emotion statment was corrected and was not me confrounting darrell on his reasoning but me sensing someting that he assures me was delt with. Again not countering anyone’s reasoning in their decision to stay or leave. (maybe my reasoning on the prudance of taking action too soon, and when it is good to take action. It is prudent to take action when that action is eminate.

    19. My responce to Seth? I don’t see what you could use in this to suggest I questioned the reasoning of anyone’s choice to leave the Church. You cannot possibily be refering to the end-comment: “Just not sure if he is really gone yet:)” I am suprised you did not use this open door to comment on how Darrell is right for the Church taking far too long to dismiss those who want to leave. Lighten up Brad, you are missing some Prime oppertunities here, by focusing too much on your current objective.

    So far you have not clearly made your case about your assertion, “Any time a mention of someone leaving the LDS church comes up, I’ve never NOT seen you attribute it to emotional issues of some kind – in everything I’ve seen you write, you always count it to such, and never leave room for the fact that people absolutely disagree with what the church has been teaching, and don’t believe it any more.” Ect.Ect.Ect.

    Again it is not about why someone is leaving but how “Hard” it is for them to leave after they made the decision to do so.

    From personal experience, Brad, How difficult was it for you to leave? Was that difficulty prior or after you finilized your decision to follow through with the Exit process?

    -D

  39. Brad said

    13. makes my assertion that writing a letter and going throuth the Exit porcess is not difficult, in contrast to the assertion of Darrell as he has said “the church makes it hard.”

    I did not call anyone’s reasoning for leaving into question.

    Actually you did. I’ll quote you: “I don’t think this is really an issue with the Church or any organization one wished to disconnect with, but with the resolve and determination of the participant who dose not know for sure if they want to dis-associate.” In other words, is what is being perceived as so hard really the Church’s fault, or is it Darrell, who isn’t REALLY sure if he wants to disassociate himself? So you most certainly did do exactly what I said you did.

    17. Questioning the Guilt trip issue brought up by Darrell (not his reasoning for leaving). “If it is the right decision then there should be no guilt. as guilt is an emotion that comes about when we precieve that we are doing wrong.

    Also the emotion statment was corrected and was not me confrounting darrell on his reasoning but me sensing someting that he assures me was delt with. Again not countering anyone’s reasoning in their decision to stay or leave. (maybe my reasoning on the prudance of taking action too soon, and when it is good to take action. It is prudent to take action when that action is eminate.

    A derivative issue, arising from the first issue, which you called into question. Inextricably related. Again, you did what I said you did – inasmuch as you don’t plan on backing down from saying you didn’t, I don’t plan on backing down from saying you did.

    19. My responce to Seth? I don’t see what you could use in this to suggest I questioned the reasoning of anyone’s choice to leave the Church. You cannot possibily be refering to the end-comment: “Just not sure if he is really gone yet:)” I am suprised you did not use this open door to comment on how Darrell is right for the Church taking far too long to dismiss those who want to leave. Lighten up Brad, you are missing some Prime oppertunities here, by focusing too much on your current objective.

    Your response to Seth involved a mention of the comment you made re: Darrell, so yes, it is related, no matter who you were addressing. Still no different, Ditchu, despite your refusal to see. And I’m not “missing” any opportunities – I’m focusing elsewhere. I already agree with what Darrell said, so there’s no reason for me to comment on it further.

    So far you have not clearly made your case about your assertion, “Any time a mention of someone leaving the LDS church comes up, I’ve never NOT seen you attribute it to emotional issues of some kind – in everything I’ve seen you write, you always count it to such, and never leave room for the fact that people absolutely disagree with what the church has been teaching, and don’t believe it any more.” Ect.Ect.Ect.

    Actually I have, and this not being the only time you’ve done it (and in fact, me having never seen you be able to agree with attributing it to a realization that the church is false), is evidence enough for me. If you believe differently, you ought to say so, rather than dance around the subject. Do you believe differently, Ditchu? Do people leave the LDS church, for the simple reason that they’ve studied it and figured out it is absolutely false?

    Again it is not about why someone is leaving but how “Hard” it is for them to leave after they made the decision to do so.

    Yes, this discussion was about how hard it is too leave, that is true. But in the grand scheme, it is ALL about why someone chooses to leave.

    From personal experience, Brad, How difficult was it for you to leave? Was that difficulty prior or after you finilized your decision to follow through with the Exit process?

    Are you so sure I was ever a member, Ditchu?

  40. ditchu said

    But Brad, How can I atribute someones decison to the Church being False when it is not False, and I know that? I do attribute many peoples decision to the fact that they think the Church is untrue. I, however, do not need to be the one to state the reasoning of Darrell or any other person for their decisions.

    I think Darrell made his point on why he decided to leave the Church and that is all done with now.

    You mistook my comments, as I figured you did.

    the Quote: “I don’t think this is really an issue with the Church or any organization one wished to disconnect with, but with the resolve and determination of the participant who dose not know for sure if they want to dis-associate”

    The context of our discussion to the point this statment was made should have been sufficiant to suggest that: I don’t think the Difficulty in Leaving the Group, really an issue with the Church or any organization one wished to disconnect with making it hard, but the difficult part rests with one’s resolve and determination. The resolve and deturmination of the participant who dose not know for sure if they want to dis-associate is not set due to the fact that they have not come entirely to their decision. I would suggest the real difficulty is on making the correct decision, not on the follow through if one is certian of their intent.

    Does that clairify my position better to you? Does that ease your mind a bit?

    And I am not sure you are or were ever a “Member.” You are right at that point that I don’t know. Were you ever a member of any Church? If yes, did you depart from its Membership? and if so, How difficult was it for you to leave? Was that difficulty prior or after you finilized your decision to follow through with the Exit process?

    Whenever I have departed from any orgnisation It has always been more difficult before I finilized my decision to leave. But when that decision was set, I went through the process without fail.

    Just wanted to know what your experiences have taught you.

    -D

  41. Darrell said

    Ditchu,

    “But Brad, How can I attribute someones decison to the Church being False when it is not False, and I know that? I do attribute many peoples decision to the fact that they think the Church is untrue. I, however, do not need to be the one to state the reasoning of Darrell or any other person for their decision.”

    Given your above statement, I will make a suggestion to you then Ditchu. Going forward, when someone says they have left the LDS Church… ask them WHY. Do not automatically jump to the conclusion that they were or are not resolved in their decision. You are correct that YOU do not have to believe that the church is false. However, many people, like myself, choose to leave the LDS Church because we have come to the conclusion that it is FALSE. You do not have to accept that our conclusion is correct… however, you should be willing to accept that the reason we made the decision is because of OUR conclusion that it is false. Don’t continue to attribute our decisions to other things (ie. unresolved issues) AFTER we have told you our reasoning.

    “The context of our discussion to the point this statment was made should have been sufficiant to suggest that: I don’t think the Difficulty in Leaving the Group, really an issue with the Church or any organization one wished to disconnect with making it hard, but the difficult part rests with one’s resolve and determination. The resolve and deturmination of the participant who dose not know for sure if they want to dis-associate is not set due to the fact that they have not come entirely to their decision. I would suggest the real difficulty is on making the correct decision, not on the follow through if one is certian of their intent.”

    Ok, I am going to try to explain this to you again. You are displaying a very large lack of knowledge about what the process is for leaving the LDS Church. When my wife and I made the decision to leave the LDS Church we were completely resolved in that decision. We knew it was the right thing to do and were actually looking forward to disassociating with and organization that we believe is not of God. However, realizing how difficult the process was likely to be (depending on the willingness of the Bishop and Stake President to let us go away without harrassing us) gave us apprehension. My wife DID NOT want to have to sit down and listen to the Bishop try to guilt trip her. She is a non-confrontational person by nature. She did not want to have to justify her decision to a supposed “authority figure” (at least in his own mind not hers) all the while listening to him tell her that the decision she is making is the wrong one. We KNEW what we were doing was right and would have loved if the process would have been as easy and sending a letter, saying goodbye and getting our names off. Unfortunately, the way the process is set up, how hard or how easy it is depends on the your bishop and stake president. It IS possible to be resolved in the decision and still not look forward to the process. It is kind of like getting a heart transplant. You know you need to do it, are looking forward to the results after it is done, but are very apprehensive about how it will go.

    I hope that makes sense to you and will give you some food for thought. This might help your conversations go better with former mormons in the future. There are a LOT of us out here… about 100,000 more each year.

    Darrell

  42. ditchu said

    Darrell,

    Thank you for the explanation. The only problem I see with the heart transplant annalogy is that when it comes down to it, the heart transplant happens on one day, and you are not in control of when or if that day happens. With the Exit process, you retain some control as in the case of the Bishop wanting to discuss it with your Wife, she is in control of when that happens (at least when ever the Bishop is available to listen) all she needed to do was start with a statment like this, “Before you say anything, Bishop, I want you to hear me out. Explain that she wants out and to make there be no reason for the bishop to need to talk further give her reasoning as to why she wants out, then if the bishop starts some lame explanation of why he thinks it is a bad/the wrong choice, she can hang-up the phone or getup and walk aout of the office. Her part is done, and the Bishop has no recourse to (as you say) lay the guilt trip on her. If he refuses to listen first then he is about the most incompentant Spiritual Leader on the earth.

    Again, I don’t really need to know the reasoning, and really was not bring that into question, but the emotional thing was that if there was some emotional issue resolve that first, it will make the process a lot smoother.

    I think that you at least understood where I was comming from even if you did take some things the wrong way (I am sorry for that) but please know that I still think the decision is the most difficult part and after you are resolute in your decision there is nothing to stop you from going through with the process, even if there are some less desirable parts (Heck I hate doing dishes but I must do them so I can eat off clean plates).

    Sorry that there are Bishops out there that try too hard to retain exiters, but I am glad that a Bishop will do their best to figure out why someone wants to leave. Not all of you “Exies” had the same conclusion about the Church, but I do respect your reasons for leaving (even when I did not know what they were).

    Good night and God bless,

    -D

    Oh, Darrell, on a personal note and just out of cerosity (you need not answer if you wish not to)…
    Do you still believe in God? Do you still believe in Jesus Christ? Do you still consider yourself Christian?

    If so Great! If no to any of these questions, Do you prectise any Religion or Cultural Faith Belief systems?

    If you would like to elaborate My folklore side would be most interisted.

  43. Darrell said

    Ditchu,

    I don’t mind answering any of your questions about my faith or how I came to the conclusion that the LDS Church is not true. Feel free to ask anything you want…

    I am now a Christian. My family and I have come to a faith in the true Jesus Christ and have joined a Christian Church in our home town. We are very active in our new church.

    Darrell

  44. Brad said

    But Brad, How can I atribute someones decison to the Church being False when it is not False, and I know that?

    Which is essentially an admission that you CAN’T attribute people leaving to the LDS church being false. Realize this is based on YOUR beliefs about the church, which YOU believe to be true. Realize also that OTHERS have beliefs that the church is NOT true, and feel just as strong about them, and have just as much evidential support to those beliefs, as you believe you have for yours.

    If someone were to choose to leave my church, and state their reason for doing so to be that they simply didn’t “believe” what we believed, it doesn’t affect me at all. I mean, if I know the people, I will probably try to find out what brought them to that point, and truly why they changed their mind, but I would have no problem being able to tell anyone else that they left b/c they believed the church is false. Just b/c THEY perceive it that way, doesn’t make it so, in absolute terms. Same goes with someone leaving the Mormon church. Just b/c someone leaves it b/c they think it’s false, whether you agree with them or not (and you don’t), the fact that they’re leaving for that reason doesn’t make it false, in absolute terms. That’s just their perception of the church, which may or may not be right (I believe it is, you believe it isn’t). But from an absolute standpoint, it has no bearing on the “authenticity” of the church.

    You believe the LDS church is true, clearly. I, Darrell, and others do not, clearly.

    We’re not both right – we can’t be. Yet we each believe our respective positions wholeheartedly, and we each have our reasons why.

    Who is right, and who is lost?

  45. ditchu said

    Brad,
    Just because you asked the question:
    I am Right and there are many people in the US alone, that are reported Lost, usually out in the wilderness (usually woods or desert).

    Also thank you for backing up my point on what people think/believe about a Church is not absolute.

    Good day,
    -D

  46. Brad said

    Ditchu, as is frequently the case, and your attempt at a joke aside, you seem to have missed the point.

    You say you are right (in your belief that the LDS church is true). I say I am right (in my belief that the LDS church is not true). My point was that just b/c we each SAY we’re right, that declaration alone doesn’t make either scenario true (simply b/c we said it, or simply b/c we believe it). God knows which is right, and which is wrong. We each have very different views about God, and about all other views which are derived from that view of God. Our views, however, don’t DETERMINE what is absolutely true – they would simply conform to absolute truth, or they would reject it.

    That’s why it’s possible for someone to believe wholeheartedly that their beliefs are correct, yet still be “absolutely” wrong, if what they believe doesn’t conform to absolute truth. If I believe wholeheartedly that 2+2=5, I can believe it all I want – but I’m still “absolutely” wrong, b/c my beliefs aren’t conformed to the absolute truth that 2+2=4.

    You would say that I’m wrong in my beliefs. That’s fine – I would say that you’re wrong in your beliefs. My point continues to be, that we aren’t both right in those views – we can’t be, b/c we hold drastically different views.

    I’m not looking for agreement on our views, Ditchu. That’s not up to me. But your last point about “backing up my point on what people think/believe about a Church is not absolute” isn’t the same as what I’ve been saying. What I believe COULD be absolute, based upon what I believe, same as you. It depends on what we believe, and how that relates to absolute truth. Now, I’m sure you and I have widely different views on absolute truth, as well.

    All that to say, we don’t now, and may never, agree, Ditchu, but my point is that what I said doesn’t really back up anything you’ve said.

  47. ditchu said

    Brad,
    Joke? what joke? I answered your question directly.

    I think you are still missing the real issue here. As it is not nor had this been about people’s reasoning to leave the Church or any orgnization, but upon the process of such and I was focussing on the diffuculty of this process (as someone else brought it up) with an emphasis on the difficulty resides in making the decision to leave in the first place, concluding that the rest of the process should and is easier than comming to the decision to leave. I have attempted to not focus on only one instance nor on one group and have opened the discussion up to any Religious Orgnization, in fact any orginization. You, Brad, continue to limit the discussion to someone’s reasoning for choosing to leave the LDS Church, and possibily my comments on other Blogs or elseware (without quoting those comments, I may add). It is by no streach of the imagination that one can see your blantant attempts of attacking me in this regard, but I want you to know that I do not take offence. You are free to comment as you like, I just ask that you respect the context of any particular discussion as you seemed to have failed to do here.

    Again, you say I was joking. Where do you get this stuff?

    -D

  48. Lisa Barry said

    Listen to your heart…

    DON’T DO IT!!!

    A friend.

    • nebula0 said

      My heart doesn’t care either way. I would if I was going to be exed for some surprise reason so I can make the preemptive move, you know, the typical ;).

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